That's what I mean by a perfect cross-section. Differences like this between a chosen pairwise comparison and the overall model significance is also part and parcel of the which often leads to apparent contradictions just like this. I decided to keep them separate for the time being, because I prefer to keep closer to the data and show the real variation in this sort of situation. And of course as many Rush fans know, Neil Peart famously used this era 13 New Beats! I was also lucky that I was collecting data during the period of the Great Recession as well as the reintroduction of the 602 line but only for some models. I was watching all the 70's and earlier Zildjians on Ebay from December-February. If your cymbal falls into those sizes, it's more likely it was made between 1930 and 1950. By the way, this is the main reason I let drummers! If the model was not significant the write up would tell you there is no pattern to the variation, or no useful predictive model.
It just seemed I had to fight tooth and nail on Ebay for every one of those that came up. Because they were factory seconds they were a bit of a gamble—some sounded great and others just okay. You have to assess the relationship between weight and price within each grouping of interest like production era to see what is going on. These cymbals were supplied to various drum companies to use with their complete drumkit setups. It also means that a potential price advantage to cymbals with all the ink intact the hollow ink Zildjian on the bottom as well as the model ink on the top can't be worked out easily.
If anyone knows, please share. So this listing could be incorrectly recorded in Ebay pricing history as 1960's hi hats. The First Zilco Era late 1930s to 1950s Most of the confusion in drum forums has to do with the fact that Zildjian used the Zilco name twice: Starting in the late '30's Zilco was used on cheaper Zildjians that were about a quarter of the price of the regular line. Did you actually record all the details of the sales of 60s and 70s and 50s cymbals or were you just eyeballing it all and remembering? Better that we start to consider that some diameters of 70s cymbals sell for as much or more than 60s ones. Is there any chance you could send me a picture of your 1926-1930 era stamp? And that's the Guaranteed Lowest Price too! Lots of those cymbals were home-drilled back in the day. Aging baby boomers will also play a role in the data as we move forward. Also, according to magazine ads like the one here most of these era of Zilcos were the smaller swish cymbals sized from 10 to 15 inches.
It was not until many years later that the K Zildjian Cymbal factory updated its cymbal stamps. If you know about multiple comparisons and interaction effects in hypothesis testing links below that would help me decide how to approach it. Yes I've tabulated the identification errors in a year of data 1300 sales specifically to look at this: Read the whole discussion if you haven't already in the introduction to pricing section: In my raw data I identify sellers who give purchase stories, associations with drums of a certain year, or generally describe their cymbals by purchase date rather than production era. There is a major study of used pricing for A Zildjian cymbals for different diameters and production eras. I can see that mistake occurring frequently for the pre-logo 1970's. If you can find those with fully complete and bold logos, those do bring premiums. The more letters and components that are missing, the later it was made.
Stamp I used a smaller font which was shorter than the star and moon. Crashable and just dry enough! The Zilco line did utilise Zildjian's famous alloy, but in order to keep costs down, the company did not apply the hammering process. Don't be offended, I'm not trying to bust your chops, and really do appreciate your taking the time and interest to collect and publish the data. Since most sellers on Ebay don't list the cymbal weights, and many don't show pre-logo stampings, or mention other important characteristics, it does bring a lot of pricing variability into play. I've documented the effect of intact ink on Paiste 602s so I know it has an effect, but I am not yet able to fit models to look into a similar effect in the case of A Zildjian cymbals.
Often times the sellers were wrong in their guess of 50's vs 60's and 60's and 70's. I might change that in my next update, and do something more in line with how I reported the 16 cymbals where weight was a more important predictor of price than stamp production era. The expected price for cymbals with 60s stamps vs 70s stamps is given separately to make things easier for people to use just look up the stamp era. Denver's best used drum sets, cymbals and musical instrument store near you! There are different estimation equations given in that link if you have the weight. This forms part of another major study on time lags in the steps from initial production, time resting in vault before selection to fill an order, trademark stamp and ink going on, arrival at retail shop, purchase new by drummer. Originally there was a Zildjian that didn't make it, a second; then there was a Zilco that was a thinner rolling done without hammering, which cut the cost considerably. Stamps from this era are notoriously difficult to read.
However, the difference about 40 bucks doesn't really rise above the level of background variation. I was watching all the 70's and earlier Zildjians on Ebay from December-February. I have owned several pairs of these Vintage Early New Beats and what's interesting about this transition period of Zildjian cymbalmaking especially New Beats is that they were responding to the demand from rock players and later metal players for heavier, louder cymbals and you can almost see and hear year by year the cymbals getting heavier. These cymbals have small bells, feel paper thin and often have hand hammering. Lodo Drum Guy has everything from vintage Ludwig Acrolites, to Mapex Black Panthers and Ddrum Dios. It was custom built for me by Ludwig. I thumbed through Zildjian's history in to get a definitive answer.
I can check this by going back through my raw data. One other tip: If you can, definitely try to find out the weight in grams. My general thoughts were that 60's tended to bring more than 70's, and 50's more than 60's. There is always a little uncertainty. Since the holes don't look that clean to me, and are irregularly spaced, I don't think it's a factory one. And my opinions were indeed from eye-balling it while in search of more 1960's A's.